Sensible question for vegans re eggs?!
Sensible question for vegans re eggs?
I'm a vegetarian, so this is not a trolling question.
I keep chickens. Two in fact.
- They're pets, and will never be killed.
- As pets, they get cuddles, and love, and have generally become very tame.
- They get treats.
- They're pure breeds, who tend to have a longer lifespan than the hybrids used in commercial egg production.
- When necessary, they receive medical care
- They're kept in good conditions, with constant access to the outside, and far more space than is required for organic, free range birds, although they cannot free range totally because the neighbours dog would tear them to pieces.
- Their feed is vegetarian society approved, so no fishmeal
- There is no cockerel with them, so the eggs cannot be fertile
They lay an egg each most days, and I eat these. Can any vegans find any form of cruelty in my methods of production? If you have an objection to me keeping them, or eating their eggs, what is it, and can you justify it?
3 weeks ago
How is it stealing? They go into the nestbox, lay their egg and then go off again and leave it. If they wanted to raise chicks then they would go broody. Anyway, chickens lay far more eggs than they could ever hatch out - up to 320 a year.
Last time one went broody, I gave her some eggs to hatch out for the neighbours, but she gave up part way through the incubation period.
3 weeks ago
There is no cockerel, and therefore no sperm, and therefore no way that any of their eggs could ever develop into chicks.
3 weeks ago
Sister M - all of the feathers in feather pillows come from chickens that have been slaughtered and then plucked. I would never do this to my chickens.
Then again, if I had enough clean feathers that they had dropped naturally I might consider it.
3 weeks ago
Texaspice9 - does that apply to the manure as well? I shouldn't clean them out because they didn't poo so that I could take it away and put it on my compost heap for future use on the vegetable garden. Riiiiight.
If I didn't remove the eggs, then they would pile up, go bad, and explode, which wouldn't be nice for them to live around. If they pecked at the exploded egg, then they could get botulism and die because it would have gone rotten.
Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to get in the nestbox anymore, and that is their favourite place to lay . . . . is it cruelty to remove eggs? I think not.
Answers:
3 weeks ago
How is it stealing? They go into the nestbox, lay their egg and then go off again and leave it. If they wanted to raise chicks then they would go broody. Anyway, chickens lay far more eggs than they could ever hatch out - up to 320 a year.
Last time one went broody, I gave her some eggs to hatch out for the neighbours, but she gave up part way through the incubation period.
3 weeks ago
There is no cockerel, and therefore no sperm, and therefore no way that any of their eggs could ever develop into chicks.
3 weeks ago
Sister M - all of the feathers in feather pillows come from chickens that have been slaughtered and then plucked. I would never do this to my chickens.
Then again, if I had enough clean feathers that they had dropped naturally I might consider it.
3 weeks ago
Texaspice9 - does that apply to the manure as well? I shouldn't clean them out because they didn't poo so that I could take it away and put it on my compost heap for future use on the vegetable garden. Riiiiight.
If I didn't remove the eggs, then they would pile up, go bad, and explode, which wouldn't be nice for them to live around. If they pecked at the exploded egg, then they could get botulism and die because it would have gone rotten.
Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to get in the nestbox anymore, and that is their favourite place to lay . . . . is it cruelty to remove eggs? I think not.
I think that anyone who goes to one extreme..no matter to which extreme...cannot be possibly right nothing is black and white. I'm am willing to bet your chickens are some of (if not THE most) most spoiled birds in the UK. I see nothing wrong at all with eating their eggs. lol think of it as rent. You bring them food...Why cant they do the same for you? It makes a perfect circle. And I do not see it as stealing from them..hell if you go to far with that then even being vegan is stealing..BC you may be taking some animals food! Where does it stop?? I personally..see nothing wrong with using animals for food as long as it is humanly done as possibly...after all all creatures must eat..it is how life is maintained.
EDIT- Some of these people underestimate the importance of sperm when creating a life...it is needed folks!
hard core vegans believe taking anything from an animal is abusing it. So taking these eggs is not with in your rights just as taking honey from bees is not. You can go all the way to the hard core fruitarians who think you should only eat fruits and vegetables freely given by the plants and not stolen from them. So there is always a group that will support a higher moral standard. Ultimately it is your moral compass that has to guide you.
Me, I'm gonna go take a big bite out of some living animal just cause I'm at the top of the food chain and can do it.
I personally cannot stand the smell of eggs and I think they are disgusting. However, as far as your question goes I don't see how anyone could have a problem with the situation you described. I am willing to bet that some hardcore vegan will though.
I also think it's great that you take such good care of them... :)
you are crazy... do you steal from you "human" friends?
you disgust me!!
Egg and Embryo Development
Cross Section of a Newly Laid Egg
The Formation of an Egg:
The Yolk: The chicken egg starts as an egg yolk inside a hen. A yolk (called an oocyte at this point) is produced by the hen's ovary in a process called ovulation.
Fertilization: The yolk is released into the oviduct (a long, spiraling tube in the hen's reproductive system), where it can be fertilized internally (inside the hen) by a sperm.
The Egg White (albumin): The yolk continues down the oviduct (whether or not it is fertilized) and is covered with a membrane (called the vitelline membrane), structural fibers, and layers of albumin (the egg white). This part of the oviduct is called the magnus.
The Chalazae: As the egg goes down through the oviduct, it is continually rotating within the spiraling tube. This movement twists the structural fibers (called the chalazae), which form rope-like strands that anchor the yolk in the thick egg white. There are two chalazae anchoring each yolk, on opposite ends of the egg.
The Eggshell: The eggshell is deposited around the egg in the lower part of the oviduct of the hen, just before it is laid. The shell is made of calcite, a crystalline form of calcium carbonate.
This entire trip through the oviduct takes about one day.
Growth of the Embryo: The fertilized blastodisc (now called the blastoderm) grows and becomes the embryo. As the embryo grows, its primary food source is the yolk. Waste products (like urea) collect in a sack called the allantois. The exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide gas occurs through the eggshell; the chorion lines the inside surface of the egg and is connected to the blood vessels of the embryo.
The Incubation Period: The embryo develops inside the egg for 21 days (the incubation period), until a chick pecks its way out of its eggshell and is hatched.
Definitions:
air cell - an empty space located at the large end of the egg; it is between the inner and outer shell membranes.
chalaza - a spiral, rope-like strand that anchors the yolk in the thick egg white. There are two chalazae anchoring each yolk, one on the top and one on the bottom. (The plural of chalaza is chalazae.)
germinal disc or blastodisc - a small, circular, white spot (2-3 mm across) on the surface of the yolk; it is where the sperm enters the egg. The nucleus of the egg is in the blastodisc.
inner shell membrane - the thin membrane located between the outer shell membrane and the albumin.
outer shell membrane - the thin membrane located just inside the shell.
shell - the hard, protective coating of the egg. It is semi-permeable; it lets gas exchange occur, but keeps other substances from entering the egg. The shell is made of calcium carbonate.
thick albumin - the stringy part of the egg white (albumin) located nearest the yolk.
thin albumin - the watery part of the egg white (albumin) located farthest from the yolk.
vitelline (yolk) membrane - the membrane that surrounds the yolk.
yolk - the yellow, inner part of the egg where the embryo will form. The yolk contains the food that will nourish the embryo as it grows
I have chickens to, although I'm not vegan, and I am pretty much exactly the same as you when it comes to care. They must be v. happy birds, although I'm sure some people will disagree, I'm with you on this one.
I don't see a problem with it. My family has always kept hens and a milk cow. I don't like eggs though.
No I have no problem with it. But someone will because people are ridiculous.
Hi,
I'm veggie and have 30 hens, all pure breeds and kept in perfect conditions with freedom to roam and lay as they see fit. they live a full and natural life. They get Veggie society approved corn and we've even insisted the vet operates to save them - something vets have no clue about because other people just kill them if they get ill.
I've asked the same question of a few vegans that stay with us. I couldn't get a sensible answer other than "i don't see them as food" which is valid, but doesn't help me understand WHY i shouldn't eat the eggs. I think they have a basic objection to me having the hens in the first place, a bit like "who am i to think i can keep hens because they means you own them and therefore think you are better than them"....that sort of thing.
I also posted a simialr question about using the wool from our pet sheep. if i didn't shear them, they woudl die of heat exhuastion. simple. But still i couldn't get any vegan to say it was ok to use the wool from a sheep that is free to do wha it likes aroudn the land.
Objection to Production animals i can understand , but some people seem imovable even though the animal is not in a production environment.
each to thier own but it would be nice to see the logical arguements so i could understand.
Would you use their feathers for pillows?
I am a vegan but don't find any problem with you eating eggs from your own hens which you know have been well looked after.
Any vegan who can pick fault with this are just picking fault for the sake of it, and they need to wake up and remember what being a vegan is all about (ie the opposition of factory farming, baby male chicks being left to suffocate in bins or being minced alive, de-beaking of hens, baby cows being packed off to veal crates while we drink their milk etc).
I suppose some people may argue that animals aren't for our own uses and we shouldn't exploit them in any way, but in that case they should be against owning any manner of pet, because after all, chickens wouldn't exist if we hadn't have bred and domesticated them from their ancestors, the jungle fowl.
P.S: give your chickens a cuddle from me :-)
I am not a vegan, but I am also not an egg eater.
Only you could know if there was any cruelty in the relationship between you and your pets. You are not doing anything physically cruel to them, so I guess the only question is emotional/ psychological.
Do your chickens seem upset or emotionally distraught you are taking the eggs? Do they try to protect the eggs or prevent you from taking them or run after you? Do they seem sad that the eggs are missing and/or gone? Have you checked to see whether they are upset when the eggs are missing?
If they are stressed about it, then it would be pretty lame to take them anyway.
If the chicken is not bothered, then I don't see how your relationship could be cruel... I mean they might be stressed if they smell their periods on your breath or something, but as I said, you would probably know if your chickens were unhappy with the relationship. If they don't care I don't see any reason why anyone else should care.
If a person was going to eat eggs, this would be the best way to do it.
Let me say first that on the scale of animal issues that concern me deeply this is not one of them. BUT I do find it problematic to take the eggs of chickens and consume them no matter what conditions the chickens are kept.
Chickens are not property - chickens do not lay eggs so we can eat them. Chickens and their eggs do not belong to humans. Chickens can not give consent to humans to take their eggs and since they cannot I would never eat them. Plus, eating the secretions of an animal seems extremely disgusting to me.
It sounds like there is no cruelty involved in what you are doing (in fact, it sound like you deeply care for these animals) but I just have an ethical problem with taking something that doesn't belong to you and continuing the tradition of using animals for human benefit.