How do vegetarians feel about soy?!
How do vegetarians feel about soy?
I have been looking into protein on a vege diet and i keep getting reccomended soy. Im suprised so many people are into it. My point of view is that unless its organic then soy in ready meals is so treated and processed that its far from being a 'natural' health product. and there is a strong amount of evidence that convinces me that it is really not a good product. (thou it is so cheap that its becoming really hard to avoid in food).
I've found a great site
http://www.t-nation.com/readtopic.do?id=...
that explains more about this than i can here.
There is a vocal pro-soy rhetoric on this board and i was wondering if people had heard the other side and what other vegetarians felt about soy and if you have real reasons that you think it is a wonderfood ?
please read the link before you post back a "soy is wonderful' automatic reply.
Answers:
I'm coming to this question of yours late,so others have already explained why you shouldn't listen to Kaayla. Instead I'll slam her article point by point
First off, she didn't write 'her' book, like everything weston price it was written by English major sally fallon. If you've ever got some time to kill go to a research library and look up her early record
Her (very) basic description of soya pods is correct but her history of soy beans is WAY off! Nutritional anthropologists show that soy has been cultivated and eaten by humans for well over 5000 years. The earliest known mention of soybeans was over 4800 years ago when a Chinese Emperor named soybeans as one of the "Five Sacred Plants"! Her timeline on soyfoods is also wrong and I wonder why she didn't mention that in pre-revolutionary America soyfoods were one of the exports to the UK. Ben Franklin even imported new soybean cultivars from the UK circa 1770! She also forgot to mention that 'modern' soyfoods (like meat analogs) have been around since the mid 1920s! OOPS!! It was only in North America where human uses of soybeans were largely forgotten and it was relegated to animal feed status (along with barley and millet). Soybean oil wasn't in common use until WWII, soy protein animal feeds weren't introduced until circa 1950 and are the main reason food animal production was able to rise dramatically (my veggie point of view considers that a bad thing
Soy protein has never been considered a waste product of oil production and has never gone exclusively to animals! Carver developed the processes used to extract both and from that point, both products were used for humans. Kellogg improved recipes for meat analogs in the '20s and they quickly became popular with 7th Day Adventists. By the late '60s enough of the general vegetarian population and other folks concerned about fatty meat products had discovered them, which increased sales to the point that by 1970 it wasn't unusual to find them for sale in regular grocery stores.
Her claim about them coming into regular use after 1975 is insane! 1975 *was* a farm bill year and soybean farmers hired lobbyists to put pressure on congress, just like the meat/dairy industry was doing. The claim about hiring marketers to push soy on poor people is a bald faced lie that (to me) smacks of racism!
Her list of modern soyfoods only includes one truly new item (since the others are over 80 years old), the energy bar. Anything else soy has been eaten for at least 3 generations! Her comment on soy allergies is a nothing more than a scare tactic, the same could be said of her favorite food. milk! I also appreciate her scare tactic of referring to soy as a "stealth ingredient" since any veggie reading this understands about all the animal based "stealth ingredients"
The 'anti-nutrients' she references are all the different classes of phytates that are present in raw, fresh from the field soybeans (just like Kidney beans for example). That's WAY too large a topic to deal with here! Look up sterols, phytates, phyto-sterols, phyto-estrogen and isoflavones to start learning about them. It's a HUGE topic all on it's own!! But I will point out that if she really is scared of them that the high heat and pressure she yammers about, largely destroy those compounds, thus eliminating that argument!
Her comments about soy reducing testosterone are NOT born out by independent researchers publishing independent, peer reviewed research and I love the way she backs up her claim with an old wives tale
"Endocrinological response to soy protein and fiber in mildly hypercholesterolemic men"
"Soy isoflavones exert modest hormonal effects in premenopausal women"
"Modest hormonal effects of soy isoflavones in postmenopausal women"
The rest of her comments are all based on other weston price hooey (her 'colleagues'). If you never have, I'd point you to "The China study" for even more light reading
One last thing she didn't do, the first comment speaks of soy farming destroying the rainforest. The true cause of that is the beef industry needing grazing land and animal feed. Eliminate the beef industry and the economic incentive to destroy rainforest largely vanishes!
Source(s):
Vegetarians do not eat fish. A fish eater is a Piscivore. Spread the correct word!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/piscivo...
I love soy products.....Whenever i eat a soy based product i feel full and satisfied. I need added protein and i chose soy protien and I am glad that I did.
Easy source of protien but not necessary plus most soy products taste like crap. I'm not obsessed over getting enough protien though so I may be the wrong one to ask.
I am not vegetarian, my daughter is. She is half one way half the other. We can find organic soy products, and she prefers to eat beans and legumes and other foods that give her protein becuase she is not in LOVE with soy, but she does drink an organic chocolate soy milk that she adores. She is really young and not so much into the politicalness of it yet, but is learning about it. I love the soy products that I have been esposed to, but I was not aware of their over processing. We use lentils in almost any recipe that we used to use ground beef in. Now, as a non veg Mom, that is a big step, but my husband and I still eat meats that we want and are not ready to change that. But we make taco filling with seasoned lentils! We make spaghetti Sauce with Lentils! it is YUMMMM! SO, although there is controversy, I say eat what you feel comfortable with, but do more legumes and become a lentil freek. You can find organic ones too, ya know! SMOOCHES< andthak you for the info! LORI O^O
Once again,more soy propaganda...
There has ben a lot of soy bashing going around a lot lately,and a lot of it comes from Weston A. Price,a "non-profit" organization that basically tries to scare vegans and vegetarians back into eating meat.WAP promotes a high meat and dairy diet,they obviously have an agenda,I know they have received some payment from National Cattleman's beef Association at one point or another.Another person who is very critical of soy is Dr. Mercola(http://mercola.com/) ,he also happens to be a member of WAP,the previous helth guru of WAP died at 45.
WAP and other groups who are crtical of soy rely alot on animal testing,which I don't give much consideration to,after all,according to animal testing lemon-juice is a deadly poison,but arsenic is completely safe.Broccoli also kills rats,but it's obviously not the same effect in humans.
"Soy products contain five known classes
of anti-cancer agents, including
phytoestrogens. Natural soyfood sources
of phytoestrogens are recommended as part
of a therapeutic and prophylactic diet
instead of isoflavone supplements, because
the foods contain all the potential
anti-cancer agents ingested by apparently
protected populations of women with lower
rates of breast cancer."
-Sharon Howard, R.D.
Dr. Koop and Sharon looked to the soy-eating
Japanese and Chinese women to find truth:
"Studies of Chinese and Japanese women
indicate that they have one fifth the
rate of breast cancers of U.S. women
and that they consume from 10 to 50
grams per day of soy protein in contrast
to 1 to 3 grams per day consumed by
Americans. This translates to 20 to 80
milligrams of isoflavones consumed per
day by Asian women compared to U.S.
women whose intake is less than 5
milligrams per day."
Now for the real science, thanks to Koop.com:
"Isoflavones are very similar in structure
to estrogen and are able to bind estrogen
receptors, though they exhibit only a weak
estrogenic effect: only one-hundredth to
one-thousandth that of estradiol. Since
high levels of estrogen have been linked
to breast cancer and other hormone-related
cancers, isoflavones may work by binding
estrogen receptors and blocking the harmful
effects of the more potent form of estrogen,
thus functioning as an overall antiestrogen
(Claire Hasler, University of Illinois)."
Fifteen Categories of Cancer-Fighting Plant Chemicals, by
Robert Cohen
In 1991, University of Minnesota Researchers categorized
fifteen classes of phytochemicals in fruits and veggies
that have been identified as cancer-fighting agents.
Typically, each single fruits or vegetable contains one
or two of these "magic" substances, but researchers have
identified one of natures food's which contains an
astounding eleven out of fifteen! Got Soy?
To be negative about soy is to criticize everything good
about the wide range benefits derived from the plant
kingdom. The perfect food is the unfairly-criticized soy.
What's next on the nitpicking nitwit critic list, water?
The fifteen categories:
Allium (includes onions, garlic, leeks, chives)
Coumarin (SOY, vegetables and citrus fruits)
Dithiolthiones (SOY, broccoli, cauliflower)
Flavinoids (SOY, most fruits and veggies)
Glucosinolates (SOY, cruciferous vegetables)
Glyceritinic acid (anise and licorice)
Inositol (SOY, oats, wheat, rye)
Isoflavones (SOY)
Isothiocyanates (Cruciferous veggies)
Lignans (SOY and flax seeds)
Limonene (citrus fruit)
Phenols (SOY and most fruits and veggies)
Plant Sterols (SOY and most veggies)
Protease Inhibitors (SOY, seeds, nuts, legumes)
Saponins (SOY, various fruits and veggies)
Mark and Virginia Messina write:
"Scientists at the National Cancer Institute started
to screen plant extracts for anticancer activity on a
systematic basis beginning around 1960. Between 1960
and 1974, they screened roughly 5,000 plant extracts
each year, and today they continue to hunt for cancer-
fighting plants...We consider phytochemicals to be the
vitamins of the twenty-first century, and we feel that
they are what will distinguish the Second Golden Age
of Nutrition."
(The Simple Soybean and Your Health (Avery Press, 1994,
Steinmetz KA, et. al., Vegetables, Fruit, and Cancer.
Journal of Cancer, Causes and Control, 2:427-442, 1991)
You are totally correct, but you will not convince anyone of that, for example take the psuedo-science in the answer above me. For every one of thse articles you can find a dozen or more saying the exact opposite that wasn't done by people with an agenda before hand.
I like to use unprocessed soy products, organic only, in moderation, but, just as all diets are advised, variety is key. :)
Most people that say soy is bad have an agenda going. You really cannot beleive everything you read and hear, especially on the internet.
I find "Al's" answer funny. Kind of a double standard isn't it. The articles you have found on the "danger" of soy are valid, but ones on the benifit of soy are propoganda and have an alterior motive? You can take two opossing viewpoints on any subject and there will be dozens of articles, testimonies, etc for both sides.
back to the questioner, you need to read through all the articles and information you can find on both sides and make the determination for yourself.
Many vegetarians are aware of the other side of the issue and the only person I can answer is for myself. I feel soy is benificial and healthy, I don't listen to the handful of "doctors" that go on about the dangers. I myself feels that thier research is bias and unfounded.
Well after reading the article, what can I say ... same old same old. Every food has its detractors and prophets.
As a vegetarian of some 20 years, and 20 years on an off before that, I've found that lots of fruits and veg, particularly raw veg which I personally prefer, a bit of soy, mushrooms, lots of variety, grains, and just a good all round balanced diet has worked well for me.
Of course if you eat three meals a day of just soy products you're going to get unhealthy, just as you would if you ate three meals a day of only meat, or only carrots.
Everything in moderation, lots of variety, and less obsession about 'wonder foods' would probably be the ideal diet for most people, if truth be known.
Best wishes :-)
I LOVE the "Silk" brand, Soymilk...it tastes great! And it does give protein...and, it lasts longer then reg. milk!
I don't really like soy. I have read so many bad things about it that I rarely buy any soy product. In addition to being processed and GMO(except organic) it is high in estrogen(ie causes hormone imbalance), difficult to digest, and highly mucus forming. I am disturbed by the number of soy advocates on this site--like all you do is replace meat with fake soy meat and voila! vegetarian diet. It's actually like leave out the meat, eat mostly veggies(75% with at least 50% of that leafy greens) and some whole grains, nuts, seeds and fruits.
I get my protein from a variety of leafy greens, nuts and seeds--most of which I consume in its whole, raw form. Green smoothies are a great way to eat lots of leafy greens which are actully quite high in complete protein(up to like 50% of calories are from protein).
I have read both sides and feel both are bias. I do eat soy, but not a whole lot. I drink nut milks and small amounts of non-GMO tofu a couple times a week. Only for special occasions (most recently my children's all vegan B-Day party) do I buy other soy products to replace what everyone else would typically eat of dairy, ie cream cheese,cheese, mayonaise and sour cream. But again, those are only for special occasions where others that aren't vegan will not like the "plainess" of vegan gourmet.
I believe as well , WE all should question what we read whether for or agianst what we think to be true .. we should dig deeper to find the real truth .. So first I would like to say after reading the post my first question was who wrote the article .. who is Kaayla T Daniel Phd .. well Dr. Daniel is on the board of the Weston A Price foundation in Washington DC .. If you want to see propagnada you have found the mother load .. I would need a book to go into it , but lets say some of their studies (I use this word very loosely..show that smoking has no harm to any significant degree as a matter of fact ..some of their studies showed smokers actually lived healthier and longer .. ... .... they also say cholesterol has little to do with heart disease and we should eat more fats .. and on and on .. You see what studies can prove ? What ever you want them to .. So try to use logic , and real facts ..like people who have lived for years eating soy ... I do not think you have to be a vegetarian to see how biased this article is ( Do you wonder why they would say these things ..and who backs them?) OK.. I also read some articles a few days ago ..also against soy .. and again followed the path ...to find the man backing this in almost every article (he has been writing them for at least ten years) was quoted as saying... " The Golden arches are a God send " .. and he is also backed by big business ... So to answer you about soy ..yes Idealically eating all foods unprocessed would be great but it doesn't mean that soy is bad .. It's good still far outweighs its bad .. you eat veggies and fruits which normally have some type of pesticde but thier good also outweighs their bad . .I say eat certified organic whenever possible .. your body is a great filter just don't overload it .. The next article you read keep going and researching till you get to the bottom .. which may take some doing as many with agendas hide under Doctor's titles ..and use fancy and misleading words.. the first tip in this article was when it referred to soy beans used as manure ( thus wanting to create an image of **** ) how could a bean be manure ? ok ..things like that should send alarms off in your head next time .. but learning is part of living .. thanks for asking
The only one I really use is silk...that vanilla stuff is awesome, especially over a bowl of fruity pebbles. If we avoided every food that was supposed to be "bad" for us, we wouldn't be left with much. I've even heard that spinach can be bad for you. Just ignore the hype and eat what you like.
I'm a vegan and I drink organic soy milk and eat organic tofu. I can only tell you from my own experience that it is far healthier than dairy. To me it is a great food, that has gotten some bad reputation recently thanks to the efforts of the dairy industry to eliminate the competition.
That link you posted contains some really biased information I dont even know where to start correcting all those claims. Soy does not lower testosterone levels. Look for other sources besides an energy drink site that promotes miracle drinks, powder and pills.. They are obviously trying to turn ppl away from more natural alternatives.
Ok, so soy products like cheese are not 100% natural and should not be the main source of nourishment, but come on, how are those powder shakes better? I also eat plenty of vegs and fruit, beans, mushrooms, nuts, seeds etc... Varied diet is the key, not just one type of food or product. Soy is good, with those other foods.
By the way, the steroids thread is creepy! That site will brainwash you. I suggest you turn to more natural alternatives.
Did you check out the ingredients of those energy drinks? Scary! Always check the source before you accept their "facts" as true.
Those articles are always popping up at various places, but they are mainly the same info coming from certain individuals affiliated with the same anti-soy organizations (Mercola/Weston, etc...) Every time someone mentions these articles it helps them to spread their message.
Even in the article it says tofu has been around about 3000 years, and during that time millions of Asian people have been eating it.
Consider that fact. Seriously consider what that says. It is only in current times that people with lots of money to make/lose say good/bad things.
The food industry is not a billion dollar industry, it is a trillion dollar industry! So soy wants to sell soy, and dairy/meat wants to sell dairy/meat. Soy products compete against dairy/meat.
Even before people in the Western media said soy was good I ate it because that is what Asian vegetarians eat to get protein and have been for hundreds of years. So it is hardly uncommon.
If you want to keep away from processed and GMO style that is fine, you can make your own tofu or buy organic from handmade places if one is worried about factory production processes. At a store I go to a rack has tofu products that are still warm they are so freshly made. I went with another person to a tofu shop (kind of like a cheese shop) where they are freshly making tofu and soy milk in the same old ways of the past centuries.
It is always best to look up and research many sources of information to find out what is going on, not believe one or a few things you read. Especially if there is no real credible source.