Is killing a goose part of the true meaning of Christmas?!
Is killing a goose part of the true meaning of Christmas?
Just curious about those meateater Christians. Why do you feel the need to roast your potatoes in dead geese to celebrate the birth of your God ?
I've got no problem with veggie Christians, you have obviously thought about your care for other creatures.
And i suppose I don't really have a problem with people who rear and slaughter thier own animals giving them a high quality of free life and a quick , pain free, slughter.
But i do think its hypocritical to celebrate the birth of your saviour by supporting the cruelty, pain, abuse and slaughter that is the modern meat processing industry.
No point in quoting "I buy organic", or "free range" to me. I live in the farming community and know its all just hype to charge more for the meat and make meateaters feel better - it has nothing to do with the quality of life of the animal.
me: as an arable farmer I live amongst all this abuse and its worse that you could ever imagine.
oh, and Happy Christmas !
6 months ago
Thanks to most of the 15 answers so far for completely missing the point.
If you read my details, you will see the whole point of the question relates to the pain and abuse you cause, not whether god told you to eat meat or not.
Its not even about me trying to force any veggie beliefs on you, i even said i've no problem with meateating....
head/sand./bury....carry on.
6 months ago
In repsonse to Lisa point about why I'm in farming:
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for your post to my goosy christmas question.
I'm a veggie arable organic farmer. i give up over 20 acres of my farm to my "animal retirement home". Here i take on animals that are refusing to grow, dairy bulls, or dairy cows that have lower yield. All of which the meat farmers would kill within a couple of days. So i think i'm doing a bit to help, thats why i'm in farming.
Unlike commercial farms where the animals are all on steroids, here they are fed naturally and have a totally different temperament to farm anuimals. The kids in the area all enjoy meeting my animals, it really helps them learn that animals have character too. Essentially they are all pets.
Not everyone can afford to do this, we run a vegetarian B&B and most veggie or vegan visitors seem to approve that we're looking after these animals to live a natural life, and die thier own natural way in old age.
.....continued in next comment
6 months ago
cont...
To be honest, i don't blame the meat farmers. Its the end user that drives the price, which in term drives the methods used. If people paid a decent price for thier meat then the farmers could afford to raise animals without artificial and intense methods. Putting 20% on the price of meat would allow all farmers to set aside some land for non-productive animals. I guess meateaters don't care enough.
Hope that helps expalin why i'm in this community.
Have a great Christmas.
Answers:
6 months ago
Thanks to most of the 15 answers so far for completely missing the point.
If you read my details, you will see the whole point of the question relates to the pain and abuse you cause, not whether god told you to eat meat or not.
Its not even about me trying to force any veggie beliefs on you, i even said i've no problem with meateating....
head/sand./bury....carry on.
6 months ago
In repsonse to Lisa point about why I'm in farming:
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for your post to my goosy christmas question.
I'm a veggie arable organic farmer. i give up over 20 acres of my farm to my "animal retirement home". Here i take on animals that are refusing to grow, dairy bulls, or dairy cows that have lower yield. All of which the meat farmers would kill within a couple of days. So i think i'm doing a bit to help, thats why i'm in farming.
Unlike commercial farms where the animals are all on steroids, here they are fed naturally and have a totally different temperament to farm anuimals. The kids in the area all enjoy meeting my animals, it really helps them learn that animals have character too. Essentially they are all pets.
Not everyone can afford to do this, we run a vegetarian B&B and most veggie or vegan visitors seem to approve that we're looking after these animals to live a natural life, and die thier own natural way in old age.
.....continued in next comment
6 months ago
cont...
To be honest, i don't blame the meat farmers. Its the end user that drives the price, which in term drives the methods used. If people paid a decent price for thier meat then the farmers could afford to raise animals without artificial and intense methods. Putting 20% on the price of meat would allow all farmers to set aside some land for non-productive animals. I guess meateaters don't care enough.
Hope that helps expalin why i'm in this community.
Have a great Christmas.
I agree with you Michael. I find it really funny that people continue following outdated customs. For example one person said Germanic tribes created this custom. Well for those tribes, food was scarce, the winters were cold and this was their way of celebrating (not that I agree with it but it's understandable). It has no relevance in the developed world today, with plenty of healthy vegetarian food available.
I find it even more pathetic when people try to show that God allows the consumption of meat. Hindus, Jains and Buddhists would disagree with you on that. To avoid a "my god vs your god" debate, we should all agree that it is ethically wrong to eat meat, regardless of what religion said what.
I agree with you about the hype on organic stuff. Well I have never eaten meat so I don't know, but regarding organic vegetables, not everything in that industry is pure and natural.
It is called the food chain.
at no point did god say eat only vegetables. god continually allowed people to kill meat.
Is trying to persuade other people to your beliefs the true reason for Yahoo! Answers?
Ask questions. Don't write essays.
oh come on now, abuse? no dont bother a goose, but also dont bother the goose eater, grow up, your way is not the only way.
Its all food .
Then don't kill one. Just eat it.
I've never eaten a goose in my life.
Jesus ate meat. The passover meal he had with his disciples involved killing a lamb.
The midwinter overeating festival predates Christianity by a few thousand years. The version we celebrate is based on what forest-living German tribes used to do. Food was scarce and storage unreliable. The winter solstice was about the latest you could keep stuff from the previous harvest - so you ate it all supplemented by what you could catch in the forest (like geese).
The Roman church only got in on the act in the 4th century. The Eastern church does not celebrate Christ's birthday. There is no exact record of when Jesus was born - current best guess is early October.
No, killing a goose is not the true meaning of Christmas. It's true meaning is in the Bible John 3;16 and Luke the Gospel.
We have a farm and our cows are dairy cows, our sheep are raised for wool and our chickens for eggs. We don't kill animals. Eggs are not chickens unless they have been fertilized and we get them before they are. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanuka to the Jewish nation. If I spelled it wrong I'm very sorry.
Goose is a very popular dish at Christmas in Germany.
I Cr 13;8a
12-18-6
We know that Jesus ate fish and drank wine.
He even turned water into wine at a wedding when they ran out!
Fishing is cruel; especially if you are a fish. Fish is meat, not a funny looking vegetable.
Man is not a herbivore.
You are what you eat. Vegetarians are, thus, nuts!
I think you are confabulating several completely unrelated ideas!
Yes, the way christmas is celebrated is chock full of what could be called hypocrisy, as very few of the traditions and motifs have anything to do with Jesus of Nazareth or his alleged teachings, but so what? If we are hanging on to traditions that ultimately go back thousands of years, to a time when winters were dangerous and survival not assured, what is the harm in that?
You simply seem to be using the Xtian/Pagan dichotomy as an excuse to rant against people who eat meat, as we are designed to do as a species! You are fortunate enough to live in a developed society where food is abundant enough for you to pamper you narcissistic desire to stick to an unnatural diet as some kind of ego-extension. Well, bully for you, but don't try and force it on other, vegi-facist!
I am actually very offended by your attitude and general hatred for people who eat meat. You give vegetarianism a bad name because your views (and half truths) are so extreme. I am very open minded when it comes to this subject although reading your comments has only made me more defiant about eating meat. Perhaps if you gave good reasons for eating a vegetarian diet instead of inciting hatred (on both sides) for the whole "I eat vegetables so I'm great, you eat meat so you're evil" debate, you'd get much further with your quest to change the world. I hope you never decide to go for a job in politics. Good luck.
The goose killing thing only started after Charles Dickens wrote and published "A Christmas Carol" . People are funny like that.
Then again, getting to logical views, the Yuletide Feast, or Midwinter Feast is an old Pagan Ritual that is a matter of survival.
His goose is cooked can be directly linked to Maritime Activities. Like many Maritime/Nautical Terms they have found there way into the common vernacular and culture.
If it makes someone feel all warm and fuzzy becuse they think they dont kill animals, well ok. I am fine with that.
If somebody wants to kill every goose and eat it, that would be kinda fun to watch, so I am ok with that also.
If someones god or gods say that its ok to kill or not ok to kill, that is between them and thier God. keep it that way, and I am ok with that.
If a man chooses to raise animals to kill and sell so that he can feed his family, thats ok.
If a man chooses not to be a part of that animal machine, thats ok also.
If I am hungry, and a goose is put in front of me, it will soon be a dead,cooked and eaten goose, I figure most every Human that wishes to survive would do the same.
Do I buy farmed animals, no, do I eat farmed animals, I am most certain that I do. This is not a question of choice, nor is it a question of animal vrs vegetable, it is a matter of survival.
Has a chicken or a goose ever attacked a Human, I am certain it has happened, has a vegetable ever attacked a human, not that I can even imagine.
Does a vegetable have feelings, every plant responds to its enviroment, so yes.
There is no good or evil in the farming or use of stuff that is clearly not a poison or harmfull to consume.
I thank you kindly for shareing your view on this matter, and happy Midwinter, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, and whatever else Humans have called the Winter Solstice.
Thank god, someone who has the same view points as myself and isnt a total looney.People are ignorant when it comes to the origins of meat.As you so rightly say, they totally bury their heads in the sands-they think with their bellies over their hearts and souls.
God didnt give us the go ahead to eat animals-we mis-interpreted what he was saying because it gave us easier lives.What gives us the right to take the life of another living soul just to fill our stomachs?I cant believe God would create such complex beautiful creatures as cows, pigs etc simply for us to slaughter and serve up on our plate.
It always fills me with such sadness to hear and see people flocking to church on xmas to pay respect to Jesus, who died for our sins, only to rush home and cook an animal-once a living breathing part of Gods creation-thus adding further to mans sins.
Shameful.
I agree as well. I think a religion that claims to be against killing and harming another would at lest think twice before killing an innocent creature. indeed, some sects of the Christian religion do think about this, and they should be commended for it.
the story of christmas doesn't bring this matter up at all!!! it doesn't say to eat anything specific and it doesn't mention any concerns for the quality of life of the animals adjacent to the manger. but it also doesn't say that it;s ok to use this forum and the story of christmas to adjitate people about meat eating or non meat eating and the quality of life for animals from a farmers point of view. you should feel shame and i think it's only karmic coal for you this year
Well, it's not going to be a part of my Christmas celebration this year. Admittedly, most of my problem with eating meat lately has to do with some abrupt change in my metabolism and/or psychological make-up. But the slaughter of animals really disturbs me, to say nothing of the miserable lives that most of them lead before they're killed.
And as far as the Christmas/Christian element is concerned, my research says that meat eating in the days of Jesus was a fairly rare occurance -- limited to things like wedding feasts and welcoming visitors to your home. The average daily diet was heavy on grains, cheeses, breads, vegetables, etc.
So technically, Christian vegetarians like myself are probably celebrating the birth of Jesus in a way that's closer to the original than those who are eating roast goose and other meats.
I, too, have no problem with the concept of killing animals for food. It's not the killing of an animal that's awful, it's the method of slaughter and the quality, or lack thereof, of their lives before they are taken to slaughter, that is totally inexcusable.
I saw a sticker or bumper sticker or
People don't THINK about what they eat, because the end product never looks like the life it once was. People don't care to take the time to think about the suffering of a farm-raised animal's life, they just think of the slaughter. IT'S MORE THAN THE SLAUGHTER, which btw, is done cruelly. Basically, many animals have to die slowly, with throats slit and bleeding to death while hanging upside down by the feet. If they (birds) don't die from the throat being slit, then they die from being dipped into scalding baths to loosen the feathers.
People don't mean to be cruel, because factory farms and slaughterhouses don't publicize what really goes on. That's why it takes undercover whistleblowers to get this information out to the public.
Don't be too hard on omnivore Christians, for they know not what they do..... until now.
I get your question Michael, but do you not think that posing a question for meat eaters in the Vegetarian & Vegan section is unlikely to get you any sensible answers?
I'm veggie so I can't answer, though thanks for asking.
Happy Christmas to all!
I agree with you. I have been a true vegetarian (no meat, fish or poultry) for almost 20 yrs now. My main reason for this is that in my opinion factory farming and our mistreatment of animals is one of mankinds biggest shames and greatest affronts to God.
As a religious person, I cannot see my God approving of our treatment of animals, particularly in factory farming, and therefor when I honor my God, as I do on Christmas, I do so while not supporting the horror that is factory farming.
Jesus was born in a stable, and I'll bet you a fiver all of the animals in there ended up in the production of some type of non-vegan food. I REALLY doubt Christ family had anything against the production of meat. Again, it was shepherds the Angels appeared to, not crofters.
It's worth noting that the ceremonial eating of a goose (or turkey these days as they're cheaper) is a custom many hundreds years older than Jesus. In Yule, the festival which was adapted to meet Christianities needs and from whence we get most of todays Christian customs, people got together with their family and feasted on meat, traditionally goose.
While it may have nothing to do with Christ, meat's certainly an integral part of Christmas, and has been for many millenia. Thus, in answer to the question 'Is killing a goose part of the true meaning of Christmas?' the answer has to be that it is one of them.
True you don't need to eat it, David Dickerman, but you don't need to give presents, another tradition older than Jesus. Any 'but you don't HAVE to' argument is no argument at all. The fact is the vast majority of the people in he country eat meat every day anyway, get over it.
Stop trolling and trying to have a go at meat-eaters, you complain when the reverse happens.
Hi i totally agree with you, I am a vegan, and yes i will have a wonderful Christmas, having a lovely meal, that has caused no pain to any animal.
P.S you seem a nice person who does not like farming so why are you in it.
Have a lovely christmas.
Michael I agree. Just when you think that people are becoming informed and that the tide is starting to turn shops start selling ' goose grease' , vile eh? My family stopped cooking in lard years ago and they are meat-eaters!!! Aside from the added cruelty of the meat , surely even omnivores should not be applauding the use of animal fat to roast anything in, given the sharp rise in obesity in the western world over the last 30 years !!!
I 'm a veggie Christian , I think it is weird that so many of them are ok with the meat industry , but it is modern society - unfortunately. Hopefully it may be different when we are older!!
I agree with lawn gnome. Veggie and plants do have feelings and such. That is why you are suspose to ask befor you take them. I am not against meat eating or veggie eating. Been as i eat both. But then again you should also go back to roots in alot of ways. You should only eat certain types of foods certain times of year. That is how our body's are truly suppose to work. We are seasonal creatures as well as location creatures. So if you truly wish to be correct in the things you do and the things you eat you should truly look at how things should be. There is not right and wrong when it comes to beliefs. Everyone has there own oppion. That does not make them better or worse.
As for the killing of the Gose that is a matter of oppion. Everyone celebrats different. Everyone has different symboligy for everything in life.
Well, I'm a vegetarian from a meat-eating Christian family. We've never cooked any geese. The true meaning of Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. I don't think Jesus would want any of his creatures murdered for his birthday. And actually, I don't know anybody who does kill a goose for Christmas. Is it possibly a regional thing? We eat ham for Christmas in the South. "We" not including me.